every time a muslim terrorist does something, we are 'reminded' that this individual does not represent Islam.

on the occasion that a white guy does something, however, all white folk are to blame for the general tone that caused such a haneous act.

get a life.

I understand what you're saying, older white guy. It's easy for people to say racism in America no longer exists when they are not the ones being judged. At some point racism will cease to exist, but not yet. Racism is learned and it's nice to see that the younger generation is either not being taught so much or are rebelling against their parent's old stereotypes. Yes, this may have been an incident perpetrated by a single individual, but the rhetoric coming from the media and politicians cannot be overlooked as part of the cause. Look at Michele Bachmann and her "Muslim-hunt". The rhetoric being spoken by Limbaugh, Coulter, et al. Is for the purpose of angering white people and leads them to believe this country is being overtaken by "them" or "others". "They're not like us, the true Americans".

I am no fan of his, but McCain did indeed speak out. It was notable, because it was a brief glimpse of the McCain of 2000. Romney the cowardly windsock, as predictable, hasn't said a word.

Except that the shooter is a middle class conservative white guy.

OK Walter,
Explain what I had to do with this. Tell me what I can do to make sure this doesn't happen again.

And if the shooter is indeed a white supremacist, what say you then? By the way, did you see that in Missouri a mosque was burned to the ground this morning? It's the second time in five weeks this mosque was attacked. The first time didn't get the job done, so I guess the job had to be finished properly. Gee I wonder why this happened.

Gary... "we have gone 11 years since 9/11 without having an event like this."

Really? Where have you been living? Starting with Frank Roque FOUR DAYS after 9/11 and continuing, as CNN reported recently, over 700 times. I refuse to generalize on who commits these crimes - but to say and pretend that they don't exist is wrong on many levels.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/06/us/sikhs-bias-crimes/index.html

One was killed right after 9/11. None since.

I stand by my statement.

@ Gary.

Well Gary you didn't waste any time trotting out the traditional stero-types of both Arab and black Americans. No one is "hustling" race. My point is more direct, and regarding how comments from the likes of Michelle Bachman may well encourage someone like the shooter in Oak Creek. If you have kept abreast of the Oak Creek situation, its being reported that the shooter associated with a white supremist organization.

My point is that volatile statements like that of Ms. Bachman, can fuel this kind of behavior. Put another way, I’m sure that German relatives of mine probably had association with the Nazi’s. However, I would be hard pressed to find Ms. Bachman suggesting others of German decent in the government are Nazi’s.

Get it? This open suspicion about Americans’ as terrorist just because they are different can legitimize killing others, if someone is “crazy” as is presumed about the shooter in Oak Creek. I don’t believe the shooter is crazy, he is the stock and trade of the racist movement in this country, i.e. domestic terrorism.

Regarding your question to Walter.

"Gary
11:15 am on Monday, August 6, 2012

OK Walter,
Explain what I had to do with this. Tell me what I can do to make sure this doesn't happen again."

All that is needed is for person like yourself to speak out against comments that are based on only the fact someone "looks" like a terrorist or for that matter a gang member. Get it?

Robert,
Thanks. I do get it. Do you remember just after the Gifford's shooting, and just after the Tea Party was wrongly accused of fomenting mass murder, when Obama called for civil discourse? Do you remember right after that, the budget debate occurred and pretty much every high ranking member of Congress called the Republican members who opposed raising the debt limit "Tea Party terrorists"and "hostage takers"? Remember that?

For many years I have fought against demonization, from all sides. The political right gets policed both from within their own ranks, and certainly from the left, MSM, Hollywood, academia, etc. The political left has no boundaries at all. NONE! They say the most vile, hateful, destructive things, and it comes from supposedly respected people (like the people posting here), with no push back at all from within their ranks.

If we are going to make this multi-racial, multi-religious, multi-cultural society work, then EVERYONE needs to be taught to tolerate everyone else. We can not set up a situation where one group is considered guilty for the sins of their fathers, and every other group is taught to hate them and demand compensation for past wrongs.

Level the playing field. Hold it level. ... and teach EVERYONE to accept others as long as they respect our rights. It's that simple. But then, in that environment who would have a claim on the government spoils system?

I don't think he's a Muslim. But after reading the mission statement from Reverend Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ where Obama was a member for 20 years, I am not sure what kind of Christianity this is:

"We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community."

http://www.trinitychicago.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=27

This is called Black Liberation Theology. We all know what that is because the country spent a lot of time discussing it when we vetted Obama in the last election. Oops. That's right. We didn't talk about it did we?

I know you're angry, Gary. Anger and hate is what fuels rages like this. So maybe one thing you could do is to be less angry and hope it rubs off on other middle class conservative white guys, the ones that actually perpetuate the hate crimes.

So now you don't want to talk about President Obama's religion? You brought it up.

Oh well. Let's drop that for now and get back on topic.

OK, so let me get this straight. I'm to blame for this because I voice hatred and anger about what's going on in our country (it's actually disgust and concern, but let's not nitpick when people are dying). Even though I am civil and obey the laws at all times, it is my anger that gets picked up by the fringe elements and is used to justify the random mass slaughter of innocents all over the country. So if I moderate my thoughts and words, then I will have a pacifying effect on those around me (even though I never met this guy) and make the world better, more tolerant, and peaceful place for all.

What you are saying is that "demonization has consequences". Did I get it right so far?

@ Gary.

Your showing your tendency to misunderstand people. In your comment you appear to state what "liberation theology" is. Why that needed to be discussed in the last election is silly. After all I believe you have characterized it as a source of unity for a once enslaved people. We need to discuss this more?

I did not characterize Black Liberation Theology at all. That quote is the mission statement from the web site of Obama's church, the Trinity United Church of Christ. You would be wise to drop the issue like Walter did.

You got that right, Walter. Religious services, movie theaters - all just target zones.

Bad things can happen everywhere. In 2007, a shooter entered a colorado church, and a volunteer security guard who was armed took out the shooter. The Pastor of the church remarked that the security guard probably prevented 100 people from being injured.

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-10/us/colorado.shootings_1_gunman-security-guard-casings?_s=PM:US

Right...I forgot the answer is always that we shouldn't try and prevent the crime from happening, we should make sure we can shoot the assailant when it does happen. A little collateral damage in the form of more dead bodies is always acceptable.

And david, that's a good article. A security guard, with police training, did what she was trained and supposed to do. Not church goers waiting for a firefight.

*sigh* I don't know why you guys don't get it. You can try and prevent the crime from happening - but no matter what you do, some criminal hell bent on committing a crime will find a way to get it done. The Colorado Theater owners created a Victim Zone, the nutjob shooter went in the front door, out the back, propped the door open, came back in and did his deed... Arguably the Theater should have guarded all the entrances, but they didn't, and disarmed citizens were unable to defend themselves.

The "security guard" was volunteer, a concealed carry permit holder who happened to be there. Police training had little, if anything to do with it.

Should houses of worship be safe? One would like to think that, sure. But if history has proven anything to us over the millenia, it's that such is anything but the case. Radicals go in there and try to shoot up the place. Here in the safe 'n secure North Shore, have you noticed that all the synagogues have guards - either police or private armed security on premise or across the street in the cop car during the high holidays? There's a reason for that.

What happened at this temple was a tragedy - but it was committed by a criminal who happened to be a white supremacist. He committed a crime and paid the ultimate price when a cop happened to be on-site. I wonder just how many of those temple-goers go out and get a concealed carry permit now? And how many bring it to the next service?

Yes. They have blamed me. They do it for political reasons... to de-legitimize my valid concerns about the direction of the country. This is ground zero in the race hustle war, and I refuse to give one inch of ground to the bigots who blame me for a crime I did not commit simply because of the color of my skin, and my political beliefs. Ultimately this isn't about racial or religious conciliation. If the left cared about that they'd go after the New Black Panther Party, Reverend Wright's church, La Raza, radical Muslim Clerics, etc, but they don't. It's about demonizing and destroying one's political opponent, without ever letting a tragedy go to waste.

Someone has to call them on it, and I'm up to the challenge.

Next time one of those groups shoots up a church or movie theater, I'll be all over them. Don't worry, Mr. Extreme Right the Defender of Concealed Carry will be here momentarity to give you a hand.

@ Gary.

Yeah, Gary no one is blaming you. Its just you are introducing information that implies or asserts we are race hustlers, and for example, "liberation theology" is bad, though it has served as a vehicle for a once enslaved people to say, we're mad as hell and were not taking it anymore.

Do this for me Gary. Pretend 300 years ago white peope where enslaved, couldn't own property, and where bought like cattle. Fast foward to around the time of Rev. Right. Might you be an advocate of "liberation theology"? In short your reaction to how people of color respond, tends to be the canned stereo-types; Black Panters, Rev. Wright, La Raza, etc.

What about the American Nazi party, or the Ku Klux Klan, are these offensive to you? If so, show your offense by calling out bigots when they peddle their racist nonsense.

The shooter was in the military in the mid and late 1990's, and never served overseas. PTSD not a factor here.

So you don't see how calling someone who wants to control spending a "Tea Party terrorist" and "hostage taker" would have any adverse side effects, while at the same time stating that strong words coming from the right can push someone over the brink into violence?

At this point I can only quote Bill Buckley:
"I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said."

@ Gary.

The main feature of the Tea Party is avoidance of facts and reasoning. Again, Ms. Bachman makes wild claims about Huma Abedin as a terrorist mole. Why? Her father know X, who knew Y, who knew Z, who associated with the Muslim Brotherhood. Really.

That is the problem with the Tea Party, wild claims and complaints, but no principled discussion, for example, about a guy that directly associates with an American Nazi organization, and then kills 7 people in Oak Creek. No real outrage, only how horrible Rev. Wright is. Really?

Do you see how these facts lead to my conclusion via logical reasoning regarding the Tea Party?

@ Al Jefferies.

I started the comments on this article, and veered off, but what is your comment to my original question posed to us white folks?

He won't answer Sully because he knows hate mostly comes from the right. As much as he'd like to paint conservatives as people of tolerance we all know better. And of course it's not every conservative. I'm sure Gary is very tolerant. But there are enough out there and it is documented every day. Hate against race, color, religion, and sexual orientation. This is the root cause of these crimes. Until we do something about people's attitudes this will keep on happening. I'd rather stop the cause of the crimes than arm everyone and blast away. But that's just me.

I didn't answer because I don't have anything to do with supremacist groups, white, black, or Islamist. I don't answer for any of those groups no matter how much you imply that I am a part of that kind of thinking.

This attack was just as random as the Unibomber. You know, the guy who was inspired to kill by Al Gore's brand of environmentalism.

This was just as random as the Fort Hood killer who slaughtered American soldiers in the name of Islamic Jihad.

This is just as random as the New Black Panther's call to kill white babies to strengthen the black race.

This is just as random as the Timothy McVie's attack on the federal building to get revenge on the government for the Waco killings.

They are all fringe lunatics who don't represent a large group of people. Right?

As if all Chicago's inner city violence is random?

Steve, you're comparing apples and oranges. Are you really unable to comprehend, or are you too angry to think about it? It seems like your emotions are trumping rational thought. If you really don't comprehend, then i'm sorry for stretching your brain out of shape. I guess I could say the same for Gary. Gary, try to get this- you are not being blamed. Understand?

@ Walter: "As much as he'd like to paint conservatives as people of tolerance we all know better. "

Oh give us a break with the stereotyping Walter. I'm proud to be a conservative, and I'm equally as proud to have friends and acquaintances of every race, creed, etc.

Are there some things I don't appreciate? Sure. Criminals. People who hate other people because of their race, creed, etc. And I don't appreciate people who act like idiots - gang bangers, racists, etc. So I don't associate with those people, if that makes me intolerant of idiots, so be it, I'm good with that.

Steve,
They are not my target audience. ;)
Gary

Wait a second Sully. I didn't blame you or any Democrat for the shootings. Don't get defensive on me now. I just want to know what you and your party are going to do about stopping all the hate that's coming out of the left. We're all waiting for your answer.

@ Alex.

Alex my original post is not about blame; it’s about how silent white people are toward public comments political groups and individual politicians make that stoke animosity toward, for example, our president. You know the pitches, Mr. Obama wasn't born here, is Muslim, and therefore not a legitimate president.

It’s political and it’s a question to conservatives; when will conservatives speak out against the unsubstantiated comments toward people of color that they are “taking the country from us”. The most distained groups discussed by conservative politicians are black welfare queens, undocumented Mexicans’, and terrorist Muslims (anyone Arab in appearance).

It’s not rocket science, just common sense, words have consequences.

You posts, both current and past, clearly prove I am right. Sorry if the truth hurts, but I and others are tired of your race-baiting nonsense and your ability to say hateful things about others, yet when someone points out that you are doing the same things CONSTANTLY, you get all bent out of shape.

Like I said, the truth hurts. And people are sick of putting up with your attacks, many which are hateful toward entire groups of people. Just calling it like it is.

Amen, Gary and Al have left the common sense building, again.

Yep Sully. They don't get it and they never will.

Some how I think this doesn't only happen in America. Witness the seemingly never-ending war in the Middle East between /whatever country/ and Israel.

It's not right, but it's not just in America.

Unfortunately, you'll never see the lamestream media miss an opportunity to exploit something bad, while they totally ignore the good stories.

You'll hear about so-and-so shooting such-and-such over this-and-that "turf", and how so-and-so was "turning his life around"...

But you'll never hear about how some criminal broke into a house, the homeowner held him at gunpoint w/o firing a shot until the police came to arrest the criminal - because depending upon your point of view it's either not sensationalist enough, or it doesn't play into the leftist agenda to disarm America...

No one has threatened you here.

I see you are just as disgusted by this discussion as I am. I will have to ask you to look the other way while we fight our little race hustling civil war. We should be discussing how everyone in the US should be free to practice their religion without fear or intimidation, and how if any of us live in fear simply because of what we believe, then none of us is really free. But, unfortunately some of us just can't let blood shed go to waste and so the rest of us have to spend time cleaning up their rhetorical mess.

Last night I stood with the Palatine Sikhs in their Temple.
I talk the talk, and I walk the walk.

Beck, Coulter, and Limbaugh say "kill the liberals"?

You put that in quotes, therefore you meant it literally. I have never heard that. That is exactly the kind of slander you are accusing the right of promoting.

You need to educate yourself about what people on the right are actually saying. Your sources are misleading you. You are being taught to indiscriminately hate your political enemy and you are coming on here and repeating the lies you have been told.

There is a technical political term for people like you. Let's just say that the leaders on the left find you to be a very useful person.

@ Rick Thomas.

You are not understanding my original comment. My point originally is that if like minded voices don't counter overtly inflammatory opinions, lessor equipped persons may act on the opinions, as is the case in Oak Creek. Its not about "blame" its about the integtrity of the discussion.

Review a number of my comments and you'll glean my greatest concern is the course discussion prevents substantive discussion about real problems.

China must be sitting back as America argues over hyperbolic assertions, while ignoring and addressing the challenges before us. Again, as Henry Kissinger said years ago there are "honorable arguments" from both sides. However, accusing our president of not being an American is not a subtantive claim rooted in fact. Please don't put up silly links that contain unsubtantiated claims. Get the bigger picture I am speaking to.

Gary, your on. I would ocassionally listen to Beck to understand his rhetoric and he got bounced of FOX because he crossed the line of valid opinion versus an intent to encourage, command, or insight criminal activity. Beck IS inflammatory, but our nation needs ideas, not flame throwers.

Its never to late, to change course.

I will respond to that when you guys respond to my concerns.

I still want to know when you and the Democrat leadership are going to stop calling peaceful citizens "terrorists" and "hostage takers". I still want to know what you are going to do about the Democrat party's support for the anti-Semitic, violent, anarchic Occupy Wall Street movement which directly provided inspiration for the Sikh shooter. You guys are avoiding that.

Now don't get me wrong. I am NOT blaming anyone. I just want the same answers you do. You are not to blame, but you must unilaterally solve the world's problems while the other political party undermines you in every way possible. Those are the rules, right?

Be fair here. I asked when you would stop beating your wife before you asked me, so you go first. Well..... we're waiting.

See how this works? Around and around we go, until you folks decide to stop the political demonization and work together to fix the real problems we face.

No, just pretty much decided to stop arguing with you because you are a moron.

Yeah, I'm getting replies from some new commetors, but the link doesn't come back to that name. How many alias are some folks using?

@ Alex Stevens.

Come on, name calling? Take this to heart Alex, if you were in grade school, you'd be scolded for resorting to name calling. I don't agree with all comments, but calling someone a "mouron" is more like taking your ball and going home.

To much heat, then get out of the kitchen, but don't sulk if you are unwilling to answer a question.

So right now he's Alex. You know, every time I ask someone to prove me a liar, instead I get a personal attack (such as being called a moron, per Alex, or whatever choice of name he's using at the time). "Alex", I'm really curious as to why you've changed your name four or five times in the same string of comments.