I wish I was promised a 16% raise over 4 years. Go PATCO, go PATCO !! Loved Reagan for firing all who picketed. Hope it's done to all teachers who think they are beyond reach to be fired. It's smoke and mirros about liking to teach, it's more about the gravy train of raises, benefits, and retirement that makes teaching lucrative. If you didn't unerstand that, I guess your teacher did a poor job of educating you.

this will never stop until people stop electing the same people that run this state and allow the unions to have such an influence. Watch your Real estate taxes. 60-70% of real estate taxes go to the schools. as for the city, they are already 600 million in the hole and now they are going to give them 4 years at 700 million. While the medium encome in the city is 47,000. Who is paying for this???? 18% OF THE STUDENTS CAN READ at a 5th grade level BY 8TH GRADE. 20% can do math at an 8th grade level by high school in the cps. Looks like paying more money will not fix this but carol lewis sure looks like she should follow the nutritional crap that is being pushed in our schools. She sure needs a diet.

You get what you pay for!

Labor unions themselves are the reason so many jobs are shipped overseas, disruptions, unrealistic demands, low productivity. We can't export teaching, so we need to fire them and start over. At this point, it is the only way.

I agree enough of this BS Just fire them !!

I agree ! Lets start over Fire them all and no more pay beyond the average income of the community !!including the benefits!!

Bonita - Deerfield, Stevenson and New Trier are able to perform better with less. Libertyville is able to perform equally with much less. What are we paying for?

Well said! And never once did their union bring up "class warfare" by stating that their board members were "multi-millionaires"!

the strike was not about the conditions in the classroom. It was about 2 simple things. The first was compensation. The second was evaluations that have teeth. The union wanted more money and less of the evaluation that could end up in terminating someone who pays union dues. They don't have to do a good job in the classroom they just have to pay union dues. BTW: I am a former teacher and teachers union negotiator. As we used to say back when I was in the classroom - "Good teacher? Bad teacher? Same pay!" That is what drove me out of the classroom into business where it is a meritocracy. Those who perform get rewarded. Those who do not seek new opportunities.

That simply is NOT true. The real issue for the Union is the authority of principals to fire teachers. Teachers Unions have no concerns about the quality of the teacher, only ensuring that they get their union dues and that teachers are protected.

Here is a concept. Let's make it performance oriented, that is the top 20% performing teachers make the top money the next 50% make mean relative to todays teacher salaries and the bottom 30% get fired and replaced for teachers that really want to teach. Never happen with the Union concept!

As to Lake Forest HS, really? A strike? You have one of the countries nicest country club facilities, motivated students and some of the highest salaries. Fire them and rehire or better yet send them to CPS for a week and they will wonder why they ever had a strike!

If the Chicago teachers had any interest in improving conditions they would be striking for classroom supplies, books, air conditioning, etc. Instead, all they demand is more for themselves which costs the system more money and makes it less able to afford supplies, books, etc.

Imagine how many CPS teachers would show up. Imagine how the quality of education would dramatically decline over night.

Did any of you even read what the board offered before making your comments? I find the BOE's behavior inappropriate.

@llwvrt - I did read it carefully. I objected to the overly generous concessions being offered by the Board.

well stated common sense

I am a teacher and no one goes into teaching for the money. LF teachers have lost the reason we become teachers. Get back into the school and do what you do teach. You are so fortunate to have the opportunities to educate some wonderful children in a safe, supported enviroment. Count your blessings instead of your money.

@G Money - even IF it was just a 3% raise for both, that is still 3%. Asking for 6%, for doing THE SAME JOB, is just plain old greedy. The whole "step" concept needs to be brought into reality, which the board wanted to do.

Try going to the teacher's page and get both sides.

I was on the teachers page. Asked them for documents to prove their side and they blocked me instead of answering.

Being in line with other contracts has no bearing on anything. It is a completely irrelevant point. Especially now when the government has so little money. Look at the number of non-tax payers.....

There are charter and private schools that produce quality educational outcomes in these very same areas.

@think harder: Keep thinking you have much ground to cover before you start to make sense. The teachers have a choice. Let them choose. What they have today is a far cry from unbearable and unjust. To bring up the 3 tragedies this year is just wrong. Keep thinking.

@Think harder - Wouldn't people with character still be teaching the kids?

@Think - in the REAL WORLD people HAVE ALREADY made sacrifices to keep companies viable and going. They have taken pay freezes, increased medical costs, and some even pay cuts, all to keep the business going. It is a "shared sacrifice" - something the teachers just don't seem to understand. All they seem to want to do is make the LF and LB taxpayers SUFFER AND PAY MORE.

Also, if our taxes keep going up, people won't want to buy houses here either. Plus, we have to compete with Deerfield, Stevenson, and New Trier which seem to do better than LF on LESS. They could also go to Libertyville and get EQUAL performance for MUCH LESS. I don't think LF teachers are currently in a place to play the comparison card.

Lets rename Illinois from the "Land of Lincoln" to "Think Harder" State

i am trying to get out of illinois but cant sell my home. If I could I would move my business and myself elsewhere. Has anyone realized that the only people striking are the teachers and the public sector people. See any private sector companies on strike. This is what happens when you allow governmental unions. They feel the pinch of the recession we are in but somewhere down the line it got lost that these people are paid by tax money from people who work in the private sector. This state is going to explode sooner or later. Kaboom!!!!

James urban, what about your employees? Do you care about them? When you pick up and leave, do you give them transfer packages? I bet not. I bet you fire them, or make them pick up all the moving expenses because of your personal dislike of Illinois and paying taxes. My guess is you'll pull a Mitt and fire them as you close the doors. Am I wrong?

"Concerned Citizen" said it so well! Ditto!

That's exactly what I did. I saw the writing on the wall five years ago, packed up the business and moved to a state where the property taxes and business climate are FAR more reasonable where the Government (and their unions) don't run everything. One of the best decisions I've made in the past decade and the weather is so MUCH better!

Illinois is technically BK and if it was not for the current Ponzi scheme taking place with the Federal Government, a lot of public service sector retirees relying on their pensions would be in for one rude awakening. How long can it last? Not much longer in my opinion... especially when you have Teachers Unions with this much gall to be asking for what they are asking for with the current economic conditions.

Glad I got out when I did and it's certainly a decision I would make again today if I was still there. You really think you are not going to be stuck with the bill when the cards come falling down?

@RB - unfortunately, many of the employees have been electing the Democrats that destroyed this state. Therefore, they are partially responsible for the business leaving in the first place. Didn't you hear the democrats - WE DON'T NEED those businesses they chanted.

@Think Harder. Like everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion, but all opinions, including yours, should be respectful and fact-based. Labeling those with different viewpoints as "ugly" or "without character" is not helpful to the debate of this important issue. Surely you did not mean to suggest that there was a correlation between teachers' salaries and last year's tragic deaths. And, as to your comment about paying well, I don't think any one credibly disagrees with that. However, paying "well" doesn't mean paying the "highest." (And I don't think anyone can credibly contend that we don't already pay our teachers well.) The majority of us are questioning whether the current compensation system produces the best teachers and provides the best value for taxpayers' dollars. There is nothing "disrespectful" or of "questionable values" about that. Your position is based on the premises that highest salaries = best teaching quality. The facts just don't support that position. Specifically,
-- If it did, the best teachers would be paid the most, and that's not true. Some of the best teachers at LFHS are under the average, not because they aren't excellent teachers, but because they don't have enough "degrees" or "years of experience."
-- Why is it that the latest group of Golden Apple High School teachers make considerably less than LFHS teachers? (See my post with that data.) LFHS would be privileged to have any of those teachers here; they certainly are "cast offs."

Sorry for the typo in my last comment. Should say "are not cast-offs."

@Think harder - $106,000 average salary, plus $1,000,000 to $2,000,000 pensions. 9% raise offered over the next 3 years. 10 weeks vacation. Excellent working conditions.
The point is that most reasonable people would believe the teachers have been treated very fairly and are well compensated. Until they went on strike, their compensation was under the radar and not the talk of the town.

Going on strike was a huge miscalculation for the teacher's union. Major mistake.

@Think harder, If you want to be treated like a professional, act like it and go back to work and negotiating in good faith from there. The union is bringing these negative on themselves.

People value teachers, they don't value bullies who use children as pawns.

rb in the private sector we do not give people transfer packages. I run a business that the man you voted for said I did not build myself, which I most certainly did with my own money that I earned and saved from a job that I worked at by another person who built it himself. Yes in the real world I would close the doors and start somewhere else and hire new employees. what you seem to not understand and especially in my business, we call what Bain Capital did in the 1990's, corporate raiding in the 1980's. This is not a new business practice. But see you listen to the bs that comes from the only party you have ever voted for in your life I will not even offer them a moving opportunity. I will just close my business down and say I am done.

Of course you are right to compare yourself to the self-generating income of wall street professional to a taxpayer paid salary- of course you should not be judged by your performance-you are altruistic, not self-serving-why doesn't the public understand this??-we all know that-the money is just a..a.. the money is just a.... a ....a.. a token of our appreciation for your critical thinking skills and uh..... uh..... success rate of the education provided, the money is just ah....ah...ah...a gift.

What a crock!
Your ignorance about what drives salaries is so very obvious. Comparing teachers to anybody in the private section is the biggest load of cockypoo I've seen in a long time.
These are people who want to compare their salaries to a school that is not in the North Shore as well as taking credit for results which have a whole lot more to do with the quality of the students they have and the support they get from parents than it does with the quality of their effort.

And guess what? High salaries does not equal high quality. It is a subject of supply and demand. And there are tons of quality teachers who can't find jobs now that it is a load of horse manure that to think that this group has the gonads to ask for 4-5% raises.

and you will be the last man standing

@Think harder,

That's hilarious and what you suggest always seems to be the argument when topics like this come up, no matter what community it's brought up in. It's a great strategy to tug the "social responsibility" emotions but you don't have a leg to stand on here. The cost of living up there is so high in the first place to pay for all of the public service jobs!

It's a hamster wheel argument... you've got to pay more to pay people more so they can afford to live here. The cost of living just keeps going up for everybody until it all comes crashing down and then everybody is broke and stuck with a big bill to pay.

Personally, I voted with my feet and got out of there. It's a nice place to live but not that nice. I'd rather choose to spend my money the way I want to instead of having somebody else spend it for me on who knows what. And you know what... the teachers, police and fireman are just as good.

As if the teachers actually have much to do with ACT scores.
Like many others, I value teachers but I love the self aggrandizing grandstanding they do when it comes to the baloney that the teachers in high achievement areas like Lake Forest have anything at all to do with high ACT scores.

@Think harder - Is bankrupting the average Joe and Jane Doe really "helping" them?

If our plumber taught math tomorrow those students would learn why accurate measurements (not an estimate) are vital. The students in Econ would learn about running a business and the psych students would learn how to handle irate customers who have dysfunctional plumbing. Not to mention the negotiation skills needed to deal with city ordinances.

I agree. The teachers have been given much and they've walked off the job.

So, Teachers:
What you're saying is that in order for you to help the students, you need to harm them?

The BOE DID offer to pay the teachers what they are worth - they actually offered to pay the teachers MORE than what they are worth. Unfortunately, the greedy teachers (or at least their union leadership) have some sort of complex and want even more because we have some Porche driving professional athletes and CxOs types that live in LF.

Bill,
What exactly are teachers "worth?"
Salaries are a result of supply and demand. Let's see where teachers go to earn What are getting now.
Let's see the line-up of highly qualified people that will work just as hard and likely achieve the same ACT scores if there are openings at Lake Forest.
Let's look at the number of teachers that have left Lake Forest because they got better wages and benefits elsewhere.
Just wondering.

@John Brinkman - I agree.

In addition, I think that there are some very dedicated teachers that got sucked into this mess. My best guess is that if we were able to hold another vote to strike or not strike, using a secret ballot, many teachers would vote to not strike. At least that would be my hope.

I've asked for this before. Please share the scattorgrams showing where every teacher is on the pay scale. Then everyone will find out who is telling the truth.

I don't believe too many teachers in LF are spending too much of their own money for supplies in the classroom. I have seen BUCKETS of school supplies that the teachers have collected from students as well as all of the "toys" the district and donors have provided to the schools. Maybe CPS teachers, but not here in LF.

What a pile of irrelevant pap.
1. I'd love to do an hourly wage comparison any time.
ANY TIME! Most people work hours that they don't get paid for. Gee, and all those things you note that you want to pretend is "extra work" is actually called your job. I'd trade my hours and my work schedule and my pay and benefits for a typical teacher's any day.
2. You don't get paid for degrees, you get paid for performance. Most of my co-workers have advanced degrees and don't get paid extra for it.
3. What a CEO is paid in completely irrelevant. I am not crazy about what executives get paid but they are much more highly qualified that 99% of teachers and put in far more time that a teacher would ever dream of.
4. Wow do you need a course in basic economics. The pay of mechanics is subject to the open market and is not guaranteed unless they can get repeat business. Do we have that choice with teachers? They also have to cover their overhead (you may need to look it up since it is pretty clear you are clueless in this area). The other "professions" you mention are also subject to supply and demand. And none of these folks have the benefit plans, the retirement plans or the wonderful work conditions that Lake Forest teachers have.
It is pretty clear from your abject ignorance that you have never work in a private sector job where you were "at risk" and held accountable for your performance.
One final thought: we aren't held hostage when our mechanic goes on strike.

"How do you compare the demands of a teacher who is dedicated to someone with a bachelors degree working a 9-5 job at a corporation whose CEOs are raking in money and the goal is to make money, not educate people necessarily? How much would you pay ----Anyone taking care of your elderly parents, kids or pets? Heck-I pay $75/hr. to repair my car. I've never heard an uproar about that!"

wow...it's rare to encounter this level of economic ignorance in today's time. But I guess that's consistent with the trend.

Love2read: Please run for a government office. Although you likely will not win because you have waaaaay too much common sense!

Give up tenure? How about giving up not having to be responsible for your results? I think real teachers should be earn extraordinary amounts of money. The trick is they have to be good. That means students have to learn to think. They have to add skills. They must gain self confidence and have goals.

Showing up most of the time and not being accountable for your results? There are only 2 jobs like that....teachers and government officials....

Funny, 'a', most of the abuse is coming from the teachers, or at least their union heads and the 'oldsters' that just want to ride this one out.

Also, many of the items you mention - outdated books, no supplies, no supportive parents - DO NOT APPLY TO THE SITUATION HERE IN LF. That is the problem, the LF teachers have what most would consider a very good thing. Most that is, EXCEPT for the entitled, GREEDY, leaders of the LFEA (and probably some members as well).

"a"...you state...."I'd love to see the naysayers survive a year of teaching middle school kids in a challenging school"

I'd love to see a teacher survive a year as a saleperson in this challenging economy where his manager is constantly telling him not to leave any money on the table and his customer is telling him he can get it cheaper from a competitor. Here's an idea tell your customer about your advanced degree, I'm sure your price won't matter then. And when you whine about verbal abuse...spend a week as a salesperson...you will then know what verbal abuse is and how it feels to be called names I'm sure you've never been called. On top of that, unlike a teacher who can go to the administration and have the verbally abusive student punished, the salesman just has to take it and continue to be nice in hopes of making a sale so he can cover his mortgage and put food on the table.

I am not saying that teachers don't have "emotional demands" on their job....but here in the real world, the "emotional demand" is produce results or you're fired, you think that doesn't cause some to go home in tears, are you that out of touch with reality. How many LF teachers are worried about being fired?

Here's the moral of the story...advanced degrees are nice, however, I don't care if you have 10 PHD's from Harvard and an IQ of 180. If you can't teach, I'd rather have the 22 year old fresh out college teaching my kid.

@a - Regarding pay: The free market typically determines the pay scale.

Most people that are in a union intuitively understand that membership in an organization that has the legal right to shut down a public institution results in above market pay.

Have you seen Lake Forest? Do you know where it is? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just wondering if you've ever taught or lived here? You're mentioning CPS teachers (Chicago), gang violence, challenging schools, non-supportive parents, lack of teaching supplies, outdated books, etc. No one is dodging bullets or going through metal detectors here.

I think you're looking for the CPS strike.

The Sup needs a cut larger than 20% of base. The fringes and retirement need to be cut back too.

How is your rant even relevant to the discussion - are you doing some free association, or are you on something?

So let me get this straight, bankrupting the school system & the taxpayers, while increasing class sizes will help you work less hours? or more? If raises are higher than what the community can afford, more teachers will be laid off. Is the union writing those names into the contract so the teachers that will be RIFfed next spring can plan for that?

I know of very few professionals that don't work extra hours as part of their salary. If they don't, they'd get past over for promotions or fired.

@JR - It sounds like the teaching profession isn't the career for you. There's nothing wrong with that. Find something that you love that isn't so exhausting and stressful. You'll be a lot happier and so will your family.

The teachers that are on strike here in LF start at 56K with a masters. I'm guessing that you must have been teaching for at least 3-5 years. That would put you at a minimum of 61K to 67K. With your husband making 180K to 201K per year (3x your salary), you should be able to either quit or find something less stressful. This is clearly the wrong career path for you.

Lennie, why are you even posting in this thread? You live in Grayslake.

First, because I help pay the taxes for your district's pensions and for any money LF receives form the state.

Second, I am head of a state based group whose mission is to bring financial sustainability to all schools http://ForOurChildrensFuture.com

thank you for answering.

Quit! you can't handle it-get a private sector job-OHHH,?: there aren"t any?

L2Read- You are wrong in every way possible. Danni- I did eventually quit, but not bec. I was incompetent, but because I had self respect. Thank God I could be home with my kids, for if I had to find another job, it couldn't have been in teaching since it would have been hard to live in Lake or Cook Co. on a new teacher's salary. But, I have worked in the corporate world too, and I was never mistreated, pushed to work with very little sleep, deal with swearing teenagers who also make out in the hallways, etc. or put up with parents who thought every teacher everywhere was beneath them. Are either one of you a teacher? Have you ever actually done this job before and truly know what it is like and what the demands THESE DAYS are asking for in a teacher? Kids are nowhere near as repectful as they were many, many years ago I have seen grown men and women who were awesome teachers cry in the teacher's lounge over things that some teenagers have said to them... Let's see you handle what so many teenagers dish out on a daily basis folks...go ahead, teach if you think you can do a much better job!

JR

I know that teaching as a profession has rewards and it's own set of problems. I respect the teaching profession and admire that one amazing teacher that we all remember who is worth their weight in gold. The problem is that as we recall teachers, there is only one or two that stand out. Indeed, most were average and many sub standard. Unfortunately, there is virtually no way to rid our schools of the sub standard or burnt out teachers with many years senority. So our children are challenged and moved by the few while bored by others. Why is there no way to grade teachers and tie their salary to their value imput. I am in favor of generous and high salaries for the performers but why must the others be paid in the same range?

As to the "entitled" mom believe me, I know what you are talking about. However, I have a hard time understanding how you would let her bully you in to coming in at 6 am on your time for FREE? Entitled in her own mind, stand up for yourself and let her know she is entitled to hire a tutor for her kid. How did you become the official free tutor? Certainly if you are motivated to do it, that is super but then YOU need to time manage.

As for coaching et al...don't you get more money = higher pension for these extras?

Forest B.- Tutoring for free was/is in many schools. I was told by my supervisor(s) that we would have to tutor early (for free) in the mornings before our first class. One of my supervisors told students that they could come to me and be tutored during my prep. If I have the time, I'm happy to do it! It really does depend on the admin. and what they require, despite what the union says. Do it or don't get tenured. I was asked to coach bec. I played that sport in college. You cannot say no, even if you do feel your teaching field requires too much of your time. As a coach, we traveled to many other schools, some very far. Coaching for about 3+ months, or so gave me a stipend of 1500.00. I also coached at tournys on the wknds, did car wash funding & summer clinics. We practiced everyday from 3-5/6p on nongame days. When I broke it down, I was not making min. wage. A really good teacher takes time to plan a good lesson, time to set up labs, shop for labs, xerox worksheets... When planning, you have to have a beg., mid. & sum. for every lesson and lab. If you don't and you get a surprise eval., not good. Also, how many diff. types classes does a teacher have 2,3 =more prep. x 125+ hw's to grade every nt., which was req. by my super. I was very thorough bec. I loved teaching, but I did feel I was thinned out & underpaid. I had joked to my husband in late Aug., "See you next June!"
So, would the admin. & parents care if a teacher is thinned out? Would the teachers be heard?

JR

I have empathy based on your detailed explanation and this is the kind of information teachers need to get out so that we can better see your side. My initial thoughts are that perhaps it is the administration, "Supervisors” that need to be addressed. Perhaps they should come in at 6 am to tutor? What exactly does your Union do for you if it allows you to be pushed into things that seem unreasonable? Thanks for your dedication!

@Think Harder. Here's the data on the Golden Apples if you didn't see it in the other post:
To further inform the discussion and to support the proposition that the higher the pay, the more advanced the degree, and the longer the tenure, do not the best teachers make, I did some research on high school teachers who last received the Illinois Golden Apple Award. (The award rotates on a 3-year cycle, so that the last year of awards to high school teachers was in 2010.) Of the 10 recipients, 2 were teachers at private schools, so no public salary data was available. However, for the other recipients, the following information was available:
Last Name 2011 Salary Education/Experience High School
Curtis $62,500 Bachelors/8 Years Phoenix Military Academy
Gourley $97,261 Masters/13 Years Thornton Fractional South
Jain $86,508 Masters/7 Years Stevenson
Kline-Thomas $53,873 Bachelors/5 Years Clark Academic Prep
Moon $69,687 Masters/10 Years King College Prep
Reed $112,618 Masters/14 Years Niles North
Reedy $63,522 Masters/7 Years Thomas Kelly
Turk $86,928 Masters/8 Years Chicago Academy
As to your real estate argument, it is based on a continued false premise: that higher paid teachers = better education = top notch schools. That is the premise we parents and taxpayers are challenging with data. It also does not consider another key factor in real estate buying decisions: real estate taxes. If they're too high, people don't buy.

@Think harder, I also want to comment on your position about LFHS "losing more State money." That argument is also not factually supported. My understanding is that LFHS has not lost any State money to date since there are still more than enough excess school days left to receive that funding. If you have data that this is wrong, please share it along with the dollar amount you believe has been lost. Agree that teachers' salaries aren't the only ones we should look at to see if they're market-based and a fit to the skills needed. We taxpayers are having trouble understanding how $170K physical eduction or $150K drivers' education teachers are required to have excellent, top-notch schools. And, we also wonder why exceptional teachers in other areas are not being paid half as much as those in their same area who are poorer teachers, but have more degrees and more time-in-grade. Again, most of us have no argument with salaries that reflect pay-for-performance and market rates.

@Think harder -

Regarding the "hysteria about a few grand more"; nobody was up in arms about teacher compensation until they walked out.

My wife was nominated for a Golden Apple. We went down to Springfield for the ceremony.

She was horrified when LFHS teachers walked out. Her raises for the last few years have been almost exactly what the board is currently offering. By the way, she pays 23% of the cost of health care, is grateful for her job and would never walk out. LFHS teachers are proposing they pay from 0% to 10% max for their health care.

I would love to see a LFHS teacher publicly state that they are grateful for their job, and really appreciate the benefits that come with teaching in this district.

The government is not about to cut pensions much, especially in an election year. The Democrats want teacher votes. Of course Quinn made promises to the SEIU and then claimed he didn't have the money to live up to the agreement. Unfortunately they will still support the Democrats so they can feed at the trough.

Lennie - You seemed to be very informed on the topic of this board. Can you shed any light on what the options are for the folks here in Lake Forest? I know IL protects the unions and teachers. What weapons does the BOE have against these teachers? Can we actually hire replacements? My understanding is that we cannot punish any teacher for going on strike and must guarantee them their job back should they choose to return - with pay!! Is this correct?

Teachers - go back to work tomorrow. Please. You have lost all community and parent support. I am a parent of 3 LFHS students. There is not a parent that I have spoken to that will side with you on this issue. We need to understand what we can do from a BOE perspective. Then we need to understand how to change the laws that allow this nonsense to continue. Our kids will pay twice - now from these teachers and later to pay for their ridiculous pensions. Given they have COLA adjustments, my calculations give a figure of inflation adjusted totals of more like $2.5 million on average if they get their increase. Go ahead teachers, keep up the nonsense. The system will be bankrupt and you will be on Social Security.

@John, you are correct, the teachers on strike have nothing to lose, unless the strike is prolonged enough for the district to force them to pay for COBRA for their insurance. They get paid when they come back.

The BOE only has the public. The community must continue to email them. Also, if the community is willing, protest the strike and hold townhall meetings to inform the rest of the public about what is happening. I'd be happy to help with this if you wish.

The children are who suffer the most during a strike.

@Think harder, it's funny how you come here anonymously and post, but as I am posting with my real name you want be to be quiet. Why don't you post your real name, so people can find out if you actually live in LF.

@Think Hardly
I'll ask Lennie to get out of Lake Forest and mind his own business when the following occurs:
1. When the union sends local teachers to negotiate with the school board, instead of bringing in outside professional hatchet men.
2. When "Federal Mediators" are no longer part of the negotiation process. What the hell is that all about?
3. When the State of Illinois gets rid of all State laws restricting our local ability to negotiate with teachers.
4. When the pension plan is no longer socialized across the entire state, so Lennie doesn't have to help pay our teacher's pensions.
5. When unions stop using national funds and organizations to beat down unpaid volunteer school boards.

You let me know when my conditions have been met.

@Think Harder! what a fraud you are...telling another citizen (regardless of where they live) to mind his own business! Are you serious!! What country are you from??? Ironically, I suspect if everyone followed your advice...there would be almost no posts in support of the teachers!

Agreed. I know quiet a few unemployed teachers that would love to teach in LF. Make that well over 2,000 applicants or more!

It would probably be more. From my understanding 5000 applied for just 200 openings last year in Waukegan, which does not have the reputation of LF. Also, the last I heard, there were 75,000 unemployed teachers in IL.

So you want to hire unemployed teachers? But those teachers are unemployed because they are bad teachers right? Otherwise they wouldn't have been fired. Why do you want your kids taught by bad teachers?

@Stuart Tindall: We would prefer that the existing teachers return and that the Board implement effective performance management and a pay-for-performance, market-based compensation system. As to your comment, it is based on faulty logic, namely that all unemployed teachers were fired and that they are "bad" teachers. That is not true: two examples--newly graduating teachers who haven't yet found a job and less tenured teachers who have been laid off in other districts where seniority (or lack thereof) determines who is laid off.
Of course, no LFHS parent would advocate hiring a teacher who was fired for performance or other "for-cause" reason; however, if our teachers do not return, we should consider all applicants so that we can select the most qualified teachers and not exclude those qualified teachers who lacked sufficient seniority or who are just beginning their careers. Some of the best teachers at LFHS are new or newer teachers.

Correct if Lake Forest were to have a job fair they could be open within 48 hours, if there was ever a time and place for union busting this is it. In my opinion the greatest problem lies in our politicians here on the North Shore, there is no political will to go against there largest campaign contributors the teachers unions. It is time to STOP the extortion techniques of the teachers union. Decertify and move forward..

@Stuart Tindall,

You are obviously clueless how teachers become unemployed when the Union is running everything. There's no shortage of examples out there where the most qualified / better teacher was laid off while the one that should have been laid off stayed because they've been there so long.

Just Google "Teacher of the Year laid off" to get a clue.

rb your voting intelligence keeps coming to the forefront with your idea that romney is just bad because you believe the rhetoric.my accusations of how you vote tells me you voted for the man who is sitting in the whitehouse that has never held a JOB. At least Romney has experience in that respect plus has run businesses. As for my business and my employees, I feel bad for the situation but I cant keep paying the taxes I pay and the health care insurances I pay etc etc. This state has no answers but to tax more. Until there is new leadership in Illinois more business like mine, which is a small business will leave. Right now this state is 15 billion in the hole and its climbing and with all these teachers asking for more and more and more, we are going further in debt by the day. Where do the teachers who this article is about expect all this money to come from? the people who work? there is more people that do not work than work in this state. Why should I stay here when I can go to Indiana and save tons of money.

RB - you are so naive. That is why you don't understand the dynamics of business. New jobs will be created in a new state that does not have the same restrictions as IL. What is not understood is that if you continue to burden the folks paying the taxes they need to either shut down or find ways to lower the tax / expense burden. IL is basically bankrupt from the policies adopted in past administrations. This is the just the beginning of a choice between bad choices and disastrous choices. It's not a LF issue - it's a National issue. And it is not partisan. Our elected officals better start working together to figure it out. The promises we have made cannot be kept. Take a look over the pond. We are not far behind Europe. We must act before it's too late and this issue is very much the problem. Take a look at the pension liability accumulated with the Teachers Union in IL. My understanding is that the underfunding is in the tens of billions. Taxpayer bill or default? Based on the comments here - I can guess the way the taxpayers will lean.

Stop the partisan politics. The founding fathers hated kings and dictators. The president is a figure head to lead those that want to believe there is order in the chaos. Here is some enlightening reading - if you want a more global perspective check it out.:
https://sn2prd0710.outlook.com/owa/?ae=Item&a=Open&t=IPM.Note&id=RgAAAADXSTmiITT2S4efeTqo2hwSBwC9ElsuSdgeQ5qq%2f3hQvC0KAAAHwPKuAADOdq%2fDPSRKQbIalZ0YO7JPAAAd24ubAAAJ&pspid=_1347803590255_883839260

You should be in government. Thank you for a common sense solution. This was very well said and it right on the money. It takes all the rhetoric and subjective emotion out of the equation and presents a well thought out solution. If teachers want to be a part of that, great. They can accept the challenges and rewards of a new system. If they don't, they can go into the business world and test their skill sets to see what the market will pay for them in roles where you are constantly evaluated and either rewarded or exiled.

I hope this is not a start of something with other schools joining in. What a shame that they are not thinking of the students and only themselves. Agreed some school teachers are underpaid. But come on, Lake Forest and Highland Park????

Thru the grapevine I was told the magical date for HP teachers is in early Oct. Probably a smart move by the teachers as the CPS and LF brouhaha will die out by then. My husband offers a quote to his prospective clients, if no one hires him he has to figure out a way to lower costs. There's no strike if he doesn't get his price, wake up teachers to the real world. I love you, well some of you, but if the potential strike is about something other than higher pay you had better make sure we the parental public know all about it!

Pretty ironic for a group of individuals who demand tenure so they have freedom of speech insured for them.
Guess they don't feel that way about the rest of us.

No job fair please! Our teachers would jump ship for LF in two seconds.

Easier? You sir, are oblivious to the 'teaching world'. I have worked in the corporate world, and it was so much less stressful! I had a big job too and worked with many Dr.'s and Ph.D.'s at a very famous hospital. As for why unions ever began in this country...just read the history of why they were founded...bec. of unfairness and greed from employers, I believe. And does Illinois still have retirement @ 30 yrs., bec. I know other state had retirement @ 25 years. This same state also paid their new teachers the same salary as many schools in Lake County. They do not have the lottery sys., gambling, or toll roads. Their property taxes are a joke compared to the property taxes here in our county. Illinois needs to come up with a better way to pay teachers other than by local businesses and property tax. Some towns suffer more than others due to this set up. Where in the world does all that luxury tax, toll road $, and lotto money go? There is soooooooooo much of it!

1. Hospitals aren't the "real world." I've been around hospitals too.
2. What does the history of unionism have to do with the current situation? So, 80 ro such years ago when the unions started as relevance today? How come these relevant unions make up only 10% of the private workforce? Unions have become so irrelevant it takes constant government intervention and overt patronage by politicians who love the donations and free campaign to ensure their on-going existence. If you too studied the history of unions, you would know how they are as corrupt and vile as some corporations - lest you forget(as if you actually did know anything about the history of unions) of the Teamsters and the ILA. And in truth, unions started in reaction to working conditions, not pay!
3. Your greed is and pathetic ignorance is shining through.
Toll fees? For maintenance of the roads, ace.
Luxury tax? What luxury tax?
Lotto money? Already used to pay for the out-of-kilter wages and benefits enjoyed by state employees.

Clowns like you see the public trough as a bottomless pit to fund outrageous salary and benefit demands.
It almost frightens me that pathetically ignorance people like you are teaching our kids.
You don't have one clue what you are talking about

Exactly, Charlie. Although unions had an important role in the development of decent working conditions in this country, their unbridled descent into greed has contributed to bankruptcy at all levels of our government. We are no longer competitive with much of the rest of the world so our jobs go overseas. Even so, we are better off than most of the world--so they all want to come here--and we allow them in, whether legal or illegal, to take our jobs. Yes, we are a country of immigrants but that doesn't mean everyone who wants to be here can fit.

In today's global economy we cannot expect to maintain the highest standard of living in the world--no matter how much unions would like it to be so.

Goodness, you must think very low of teaching and medical professionals.
I worked with the pharmaceutical companies that had their meds. at the clinics...so I do know what it is like to work for a corporation. As for the union... my handicapped father worked for Buick for 38 years. I know much about unions and have heard many people's stories. I don't think I would ever work for a private school bec. there have been private schools that have gone bankrupt and then guess what...no retirement for the teachers.
How can you be so condescending? Name calling, really? You sound like some of those immature teenagers that like to call excellent teachers terrible names.
Luxury taxes? I'll let you look that up yourself....and there's no money from the lotto or tolls? Huh.

JR,
It is pretty clear you are clueless.
You come back with nothing but blather. Hardly surprising since your initial response was pretty ignorant - rambling about things that are completely irrelevant to extremely well paid teachers striking for more on the premise that they aren't paid enough.
Check out the poll genius. We aren't all as incredibly dumb and uninformed as you clearly think we are.

You are a verbally abusive person Charlie. I am shocked at how you and some of the people here have spoken against Lake Forest teachers in such an ugly manner.

JR,
Keep it up.
Since your arguments have come up vapid and empty you now resort to the "being verbally abused" tactic.
I suspect, given my extension experience interacting with unions, there is a relatively small minority of bullying members who dominate and threaten other teachers to kowtow to their opinion. I'd bet if held a vote on the contract presented, it would get 60% approval. I doubt the union members are even be given the true proposal by the union. I've spent a lot of time around unions and their members. The vast majority are good people who are members only because they have to be. Unions (beyond protecting their union officials and the money it rakes in) inherently protect the weak and poor performing and the other members know it.
What started out many years ago as a worthwhile movement to improve working conditions has devolved into a corrupt institution, interesting in only furthering it's own existence rather than actually pursuing goals in the best interests of all of it's members. The fact that only about 10% of the private work force remains unionized is a direct testament to the fact that workers recognize this. Only the active involvement of politicians interested in contributions and free campaign workers keep public sector unions in play.
Sorry if that is what you call verbal abuse.

There should be a voucher system that serves taxpayers whose children don't use the P.S. system, but opt for homeschooling, private or parachocial education. Taxpayers should be given the choice. The US Dep of Education has been a collosus of failure....Our country is polluted by union interests which do not include making sure children are educated...especially those who are the most impoverished and could greatly improve their lot in life through a quality education. Why on earth does a CPS special ed teacher make almost $500K/yr...and yet so many of our youth are either drop outs, in/out of juvi or getting shot? Introduce real world competition to the system and it will change over night. But alas...the politicians and union bosses have way too much to lose: control for one...and big bucks... They earn their living perpetuating the soft racism of low or no expectations, enslaving all students and society.

No Doubt! Illinois has some of the highest property taxes in the nation % wise which is why I got out of there as soon as I could. It's nice but certainly not that nice when you factor in the price.

Lake County has the highest property taxes in the midwest (Forbes). I believe that is at least 4 years running now. Depending on the chart you look at Lake County is somewhere from 14th - 1th in the entire country.

I do find it hilarious actually that you don't want anyone questioning you to find the truth. This was the statement that I asked for information on:

"When 6.5% isn't Really 6.5%

The Lake Forest High School faculty includes a high percentage of veteran teachers (maxed out on the salary steps) who no longer receive the increase in step of 2.6% that the BOE claims is in the Teachers' offer. (Step is based on the recognition of the value of Education and Experience.)

The BOE’s calculation of a 6.5% raise per year is based on a false assumption t
hat EVERY teacher will benefit from step increases. But as teachers go higher up on the pay scale, the step benefit becomes less significant. The percentages the Board is using to scare everyone are based off the false notion that everyone gets the amount of step increase that beginning teachers receive.

"Average" is an easy word to play around with."

I asked for the scattorgrams that would back up the statements made. I was blocked for this. And no, scattorgrams are not on the last offers data: http://www2.illinois.gov/elrb/pages/finaloffers.aspx

You may want to tell them to change their about section then. Nowhere does it state for teachers and THEIR friends only. It only lists there website and the page name of Lake Forest Teachers with strike pictures.

I am a friend of teachers across the state. My purpose to help the district become fiscally sustainable, This help teachers by preventing larger #s of RIFs, thus keeping class sizes smaller. In addition it helps incentivize young teachers to stay in the profession since one of their main reasons for leaving is salaries.

I have sent my suggestions to the BOE on how to accomplish this.

AMEN! And now my students are angry; those still at the high school and those away at college. Their college mates are angry too. They have asked why LFHS teachers want to be treated like a "professional" when they do not act like one? Unions were designed to help out hourly laborers... to keep them protected... how did this ever become applicable to teachers who are paid by the public tax dollar... and want their students to view them as highly educated "professoinals?" The professional world is evaluated on professional merit-based performance. Now my high school students do not want the teachers back... they have lost all respect even though I've tried to explain the different points of view. My students and I truly hope the BOE is seeking their replacements. They no longer deserve any support from us. I was one of the parents clapping when Jay Hoffman declared "We want our teachers back" but now my kids feel they can't express respect due to the lack of respect they have shown to this community.They are showing their students their "true colors." A BIG THANK YOU to all of the people who worked hard to keep the students engaged today at LFHS. You have earned our respect and deep appreciation!
"We are all evaluated for the work we do and how we do it. Teachers should be no exception!" - Mike Huckabee 9/16/12

lol, it's a Page, not a personal account. Hilarious how many times you want to justify the lack of debate on the actual facts.

What Mr. Sullivan points out is a historical trend that goes back for some time. The only difference between the start of that trend and now is the amount of money. Back then the union addressed working conditions like the tragedy of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. Locked doors prevented the workers from leaving the blazing factory. But we don't have those kinds of issues today....so the union just sucks up the money so they can stay in power and be empowered by the political party that feeds them.

People will vote their self interest and their pocketbook. Those who receive government dole are not likely to vote for the party that wants to put people to work instead of laying around. The union wants entitlements too. They will support the political party that feeds them. Until changes are made we can expect that we will continue to be on the Patch and having this identical discussion 25 -35 years from now.

Ever since I left teaching and went into business i have seen the quality of job candidates coming out of school decline on a regular basis. Mr. Sullivan is correct. I hear the argument that the problem is the families and the parents who don't care. Yet I see great teachers whip those kids into shape while I see incompetent teachers complaining that the fault is with the families. The boy who can't dance blames the band....

You are correct. Being a former teachers union negotiator I can say that from my experience there was NEVER a discussion about educational techniques or the benefit of the kids.

If you have been to Epcot, or Disney World or similar places you understand how well Disney can educate kids and adults. Privatizing education is the right thing to do. Charter schools may work. Disney could work too. Imagine producing kids who can imagine being something other than a drop out, drug pusher, thug, gangstra, pimp, or other professions to which some kids aspire. What if we were able to turn those minds around and have them work on something useful? We could take the cost of welfare and spend that money on investments that make sense.

America could once again be the world leader in something other than incarceration.

Pointing to a problem over there...in no way obsolves or solves a major problem over here. If you are so upset about the "fat cats", then vote differently next election b/c it's likely your elected officials made policies that enabled the so called "fat cats" to get fat. Really, is it so bad...the more sucessful people are in business, the healthier the system. The gov't overreach these past 8 years...is the problem There is no such thing as "fair labor" w/out competition. Exhibit A, B, C is the US Education Dept, Housing Dept, the Postal Service...on and on. All entitlement structures, that have polluted the foundation of the American Way. Does anyone remember the American Way? When will that make a comeback?